Windthrow
Posts: 2901
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« on: November 09, 2009, 02:58:06 PM » |
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So my wife and I went to a parenting seminar last week.
Anyone familiar with the Adlerian approach? It made a lot of sense to us, but then I think it is fairly close to our natural parenting style.
One of the most interesting parts of the discussion was the open discussion she facilitated on the differences between "punishment" and "discipline".
Anyone here want to take a stab at it?
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Egghead
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« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2009, 03:53:57 PM » |
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Punishment, to me, is punitive and not part of what I believe to be good parenting. For me it is all tied up with spanking, anger, etc.
That said, I would like to distinguish punishment from consequences and privileges that are sometimes tied to a child's behavior.
I believe discipline is all about teaching a child how to acquire age appropriate self discipline and skills and an understanding of boundaries in order to better manage on their own.
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kantmakm
Posts: 1773
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« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2009, 04:46:35 PM » |
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What he said  I think discipline involves a child's awareness of rules of conduct and consequences for continuing behavior after being informed of an infraction. It is a framework used to both encourage acceptable behavior and discourage unacceptable behavior - through consequences, which can be either positive (finishing dinner without complaining = dessert) or negative (throwing a handstand in the living room = 5 minutes off of story time). The framework, or scaffolding, of discipline allows the child to understand and accept consequences, even as the specific rules may change as they get older. Punishment is something more one-off, is doled out in a reactionary and possibly capricious manner, and is applied to an incident perhaps rather than a behavior model. My guess is that you would see more instances of punishment in a household that does not provide a solid discipline framework. Of course, I know nothing of the Adlerian approach... |
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hikinglorax
Posts: 204
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« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2009, 09:45:31 PM » |
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From the behavioral standpoint
Punishment is anything that makes a person less likely to do any particular behavior again (as opposed to reinforcement that makes a person more likely to repeat a particular behavior again) From that definition punishment includes things like time out, natural and logical consequences as well as all the inappropriate strategies as well.
Discipline is a way to teach skills to a child that employs (in part) punishments (time out/consequences) but also many other strategies including reinforcement. Regardless of the strategies, discipline is controlled and implemented as a result of reflection, analysis and planning. It is not a knee jerk reaction to something a child has done in the heat of the moment.
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stillpatientlywaiting
Posts: 131
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« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2009, 10:43:51 PM » |
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What others have said and to add...
Discipline: from the Latin word disciplus which means pupil and root discere which means "to learn" i.e. discipleship (at least according to PRIDE)
Discipline is providing teaching and guidance to help a child grow and develop, to learn self control, responsibility, problem solving, etc. Essentially helping them to develop internal control. Punishment relies more on external controls, sanctions and enforcement.
Would have to look up Adlerian approach. It rings some bells from child development or psych courses but that was too many years ago...
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ashkum
Posts: 1009
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« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2009, 11:14:01 PM » |
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 windthrow - can you give us the reader's digest version of the Adlerian approach?
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Windthrow
Posts: 2901
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« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2009, 03:43:27 AM » |
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ok...well i am no expert but the way the person at the seminar explained it was by using a see-saw analogy where you have three possibilities
1. The parent is on the high end above the child. A command and control style of parenting.
2. The parent is on the low end below the child. This is the somewhat more common of late child centred approach.
3. The parent and the child are seen as being on the same level. This is Adler. The parent treats the child with respect and provides guidance "firmly but with kindness".
Going back to the punishment vs discipline thing. In the adlerian world punishment works on the basis of making the child feel worse about themselves to try to make them be better. Positive (the kind part) discipline (the firm part) on the other hand treats the child with respect and should not ever leave them feeling like they are "bad".
Does that fit with your knowledge of Adler Ash?
Once I have read up some more on the subject I will correct anything I have gotten wrong.
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jlkej
Posts: 132
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« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2009, 06:35:12 AM » |
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I remember a friend going to some Adlerian parenting classes many years ago but I could never use the methods with my oldest (not adopted) children. Can't remember the details but kids can often say what they want the parents to hear and I found it rather manipulative. I never used magic 1,2,3 either for those reasons. Isn't is also about logical consequences? Doesn't work when you have other kids and have to get places regardless of the behaviours of one child.
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3xwaiter
Posts: 143
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« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2009, 11:34:30 AM » |
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I think every child is different and there is no one-size-fits-all. As it is, I haven't figured out ANYTHING that will work with my youngest child yet.  3xw |
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arw
Posts: 2875
Criminal Records Decatur, GA
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« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2009, 11:51:08 AM » |
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I think every child is different and there is no one-size-fits-all. As it is, I haven't figured out ANYTHING that will work with my youngest child yet. 3xw Hang in there 3xw - it's bound to get better.  |
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DD adopted from Suzhou City, China - May 2008
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lieblingk
Posts: 23
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« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2010, 12:48:40 PM » |
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3xwaiter are our children related lol. My daughter can find every one of my buttons
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in love with my daughter Jasmine
forever together dec 2007
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ISO
Posts: 145
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« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2010, 05:30:58 PM » |
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Shortly after she escaped from both of us at Target, was reported by us to security and turned up again just as mysteriously, she gave the following reason for darting away... "But mommy, I wanted to find a shirt for you...." Even she, at 3, knew it was a lame excuse. I cancelled all Dora and Diego for 24 hours (down from one week, for good behaviour). That seemed to reinforce the message about not escaping, even for urgent shopping needs.
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kantmakm
Posts: 1773
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« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2010, 12:06:12 PM » |
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Got the book Positive Discipline by Jane Nelson from the library this week. Will be implementing the Adlerian approach.
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Windthrow
Posts: 2901
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2010, 01:01:24 PM » |
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Got the book Positive Discipline by Jane Nelson from the library this week. Will be implementing the Adlerian approach.
i am still a believer, but i can tell you that there are still lots of situations when "firmly but with kindness" is an elusive thing |
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